263. Advancing Eco Agriculture | Where Plant Health Builds Soil Health | CEO John Kempf

https://www.advancingecoag.com/aboutSo excited because my guest today has this amazing green future grower story I KNOW listeners are going to absolutely love! So if you’re driving don’t worry I’ll make awesome SHOWNOTES because I know we are going to have a million golden seeds dropped with this amazing interview. CEO of Advancing Ego Agriculture, John Kempf is on a mission to “produce healthier soil, stronger crops, and consistently higher yields!”What I love about his story is how he started out and I can’t wait for you to hear it too! His passion for growing healthy soil and healthy plants for profit is contagious! Tell us a little about yourself.I love what I do I have fun!I grew up in a family vegetable farm in snow-belt south of Lake ErieSmall scale market ~ fruits and veggies for wholesale marketsearly 2000s we had 3 consecutive yearsintense diseasewe lost majority of crops to a variety of disease and insectsIn the 3rd year in 2004, we observed thatplants which were grown on healthy soilbetter biologywere very disease and insect resistantcantaloupe resistant to powdery mildew that was side by sidesoil with he previous pesticide exposure for the prior decade of growing vegetables we lost the majority of the crop to powdery mildew, 80% of leavesThe new soil didn’t have pesticide exposure didn't have any powdery mildew. Not 5-10% you couldn't find any! ZERO! There was a knifelike effect right down the field.really a major turning pointwhat was the difference between those two plants resistant to powdery mildew when the next plant 2 feet away was susceptible. asking that question and the things I learnedplant science and agronomy from asking that question were what led to foundingAdvancing Eco Agriculture (AEA)in 2006AEAWas the idea that we can grow plants that are completely resistant to diseases and insects based on how we manage nutrition.where we identified plants that are healthynot only are theyresistant to diseases and insects but they regenerate soil health at the same timeprocess of this journey I was fortunate to be guided byUSDA expertsland grant universitiesall over the worldrealized this exceptional info that very wise people had was scattered all over the placedifficult to findnot recorded at allsome experiences were not being transferred Led me to starting the Regenerative Ag Podcastwith the intention and goal of interviewingleading farmersleading scientists sharing their information with other professional agronomists and growers who wanted to produce in a regenerative agriculture context!Tell me about your first gardening experience?I grew up even from before I remember, we always grew our own food.appreciate it as an adultThere were many years my parents purchased salt and pepper and spices and that was just about itmaple syruphoneysteviasweetenersgrew many of our own herbs2 farmed ponds where we raised fishraised poultrygrass fed beeffamily dairy cowgrew a large gardensmall orchard Lived an incredibly rich life from a food quality perspectiveMy parents started growing vegetables commercially in 1994, so I was still very young My earliest memories are working out in the fields harvesting fruits and vegetables.Awesome! I love millennials. I thought you were older then that.So you have this amazing journey. I am curious it seems like you almost have this test plot like at Rodale's, how did you have this plot without chemicals and the other part was getting sprayed with pesticides etc. Is that it right?It was sort of an accidental test plotland grant universitiespesticides were finedidn’t know any bettersurrealwere uninformedWhereas the challenges and dangers of pesticides are now very clearlyas a result using a lot of pesticides on my farmMy dad was the original distributerwe were the first people to use to the newest products and cocktails so we could make recommendations to customersI was a licensed pesticide applicator at 16.As a result of thisfarm we were farming on and managingHad a history of growing very intensive vegetablescover cropintense pesticidesIn 2004We started rentingdairycorn, small grains2 year of alfalfa rotationSo that soil did not have the history of pesticide applications it had limestonemanure That soil was much richer and more fertilefield bordered up against our field and we started one side intense powdery mildew infections and the other there was none presentThis is fascinating?That was the lightbulb. I wanted to know what was the difference between thee plantswhat emerged after research and speaking to a lot of peopleareas of plant science which are not even considered in mainstream agronomyparticularly in that point in timeThanks to people like you...Do you know who Liz Carlisle... she wrote the book the lentil Underground. It kind of asked the same questions. I think she was getting her phd from Stanford. She teaches there now.there areWhat I learned in my researchthat plants have an immune system and yet they don’t all work equally wellWe know people who become illnever become illtwo individuals is the way their immune system is supported over the course of their lifetime even before they were bornholds true of plants as wellWe can support a plant nutritionally so it has a very functional immune systemaggressive immune systemsextremely resist to a broad array of pests and diseasesI feel like a lot of people ask me these questions you have a great way of breaking this down.there are agriculture ecosystemsit's challenging to communicate because there is a fundamental dissonance between the scientific method and agthe scientific method is based on the single factor analysisspecific factor or additionwhen you add somethingattract somethingagriculture and soil are so interconnected and interrelated so when you shift and change one piece everything else also changesOne of the gifts I have been able to bring is to communicate these interrelated concepts is to communicate them in a way to understand.On your website you have so many webinars my listeners would be interested in learning.It’s hard to identify a single surprise.Perhaps the biggest surprise is the realization that this knowledge and understanding of plant immune systems and managing plant nutrition has not already been the mainstream.I understand there are substantial economic forces that would be at a disadvantage if this information was more wildly known. regenerative ag ecosystems have been around for 50,60, 70 years or longeragricultural green revolutionrefuted by some of theJustice von Liebig when he wrote the law of the minimumleachesplant yields and developmentTriggered the development ofpotassiumphosphorusnitrogen What most people don't know he published a 2nd book that completely reversed his position and saidit’s all about biology150 year old exampleleading scientists of the dayunderstood theknowledgeinformation todayhow to implement regenerative ag systems on a very large scaledon’t need new ideas ofsimply need to implement what we knowIs it similar to what people are talking about no-till, permaculture or is it something you're doing.I think our approachdeveloped at Advancing Eco Ag (AEA) one key fundamental differencein particular to otherbiologicalecologicalorganic agriculture the difference is are very soil centriccommon mantra to regenerate that healthy soil creates healthy plants but we believe that the opposite is truehealthy plants create healthy soilbuildingplants and photosynthesisplants createsoil biologysoil environment in our approach where we work with very large scale commercialFocus is on changing soil across the entire farm is by growing really healthy plants!commercial strawberriesFocus is to change the health and quality of those plants such that those plants will change the soilWe can build organic matter while growingcornstrawberriestomatoes The only difference between regenerative and degenerative is how farm manager manages plant healthregen ag ecosystemsIt's all about how do you manage plant healthtillage agnosticpermaculture agnostic Valuable ideas that have merit and appropriateYou are not going to grow carrots in a no-till environmental on a large scalepracticalimplement on large scaledon't have in depth conversationsregenerate soil health in a tillage environmentcontinual annual cropping systemmuch prefer to focus on the results then the specific ideology.Ok, so then how do you create healthy plants then?Ah, the magical question, the perfect question?functional food as medicineto do that I tend toHow do you create healthy plants then?Foundationif you're emphasis is not on soil healthmantrayou need to have healthy soil to have healthy plants is not a fallacy you can do that when you have regenerated and rebuilt soil healthchallenge most growers don’t have healthy soilcommon prescription is tocover cropscompostno-till those are valuable and useful tools don't always make sense for a given farming environmentIncorporate when we can.The most foundational piece is we need to drive a plants photosynthesisWhat we have come to accept as commonnormalphotosynthesizing at 15-25% of their inherentPlant 5xs more sugar5x more yieldmore biomass?majorityyield increaseparticularly on vegetative cropswon't commonly see asugar productionwhere did all the sugar go? The surplus gets sent out as a root source for soil biology as root exudatesFoundation howsequester large volumes of carbonThe have the capacity to transmit tremendous volumes of sugar out through the rot system as root exodusesmany crops the quantity of exceeds the quantity of plant biomassif you have a tomato plant20 lbs of tomatoes and 20 pounds of biomass40 lbs there is an equivalentif it's a healthy plant in the soilas long as you have a really healthy plants don’t do thisin a commercial settingwhere we have compromised soils our approach is to use foliar application of trace minerals that are needed specifically for the photosynthesis processgive the plant the nutrients that it needsto photosynthesize at a high ratesoil profile begins making extractsfoliar applications of nutrients are the jet fuel that get the plane growinginitial strong surgenot something that is necessary for the long termcan get things moving quickly on a much higher performancewhere do you get the trace minerals?We built a company called Advancing Eco Ag (AEA) to answer that questionsThere are five key minerals that are necessary to increase it by several orders of magnitudefor all of our listenerslist of necessary nutrients. Your plants need to have enough of thesemagnesiumironnitrogenmanganese if any of those four is limited to any degree it will have an immediate blocking effect on photosynthesisfifth mineral is phosphorous all the sugars that are producedover simplificationgardeners are also lacking other nutrientsWe find that these initial nutrients when we apply them as a foliar spray can accelerate Can you get those minerals from any other sourcesnitrogen can be sourced in many wayscommercial sideurea organicallydry powdered amino acids Nitrogen is readily easy to source and supplyBut we need to be careful not to do it in excessmagnesium can be epson saltsmag sulfate readablyiron and manganesemust be chelated and in the reduced formshould be able to source them from any garden supply storeFifth element phosphorus is also readily availableSource from any garden store and address from each of thoseI guess what I meant is can you grow them? Like beans for nitrogen or buckwheat?short answer is if you want to take 10 years30-60 in 3 weeks No.If you want to grow really healthy crops quicklyIt takes a very long time to regenerateThe challenge is this, when you are growing your cover crop of buckwheat but it is only photosynthesizing at 20% capable of what it is releasingIf you focus on managing the nutrition that cover crop and increase it’s photosynthesis you are going to get much more rapid release of nutrients in the soil profilemore nutrient availability10 years to produce and effect or do it in 60 daysA fundamental difference and why we took different approachneed to deliver an immediate economic response. When a grower applies a product it needs to pay the bills this growing seasonpromise many soil amendmentsrock powderscompostother amendmentsCover crops take a long time and they make the other soil amendments workSo is the place to start a soil test?I have to be the controversial person here and stir up a debateyou can take a soil analysisWe use soil analysis on all the farms we work on, we recommend it.The question is if you do take an analysis, what are you going to do with that recommendations?Addlimstonegypsumrock phosphatecompostwhatever the list contains that’s the wrong answer in my perspective.My most recent webinar was on managing nutritional prioritiesI described the sequencemake an immediate impacthow do you decide whether a foliarbiologicalsoil amendment what is the right place to start?In my opinionI believe the place to start is with the photosynthesis and growing really healthy plants.When you have healthy plants can change the soil analysis really fast when there is an underlying geological profile.is a farm we were working with in Nebraska commercial soy bean productionwe put on one application on 30 acres of a 60 acre fieldsplit the field and had soil analysis on both sections before the treatmentsecond analysis followed  one year apartsame seasonon the treated section before the applications the untreated fieldcalcium deficientacidicphcalcium base saturation on the treated field where we put one foliar applicationcalcium levels jumpedph's were 6.2-6.3We added no calcium no limestoneWhat changed is the plants put such a large volume of sugars out through the root system they were able to reach out to an abundant food sourcerelease calciumobviously this doesn’t workin all soilssoil’s underlying foundation had to have adequateI don’t want to suggest you can do this across the board and biology will fix all imbalances but I do believe that soil amendments aren't always the right place to begin. What's the difference between a foliar application and a soil amendment?foliar application is sprayed onto a plant leaf to accelerate plant healthyamendment large quantity of material to soil itself100k pounds per acre 10s of pounds per 1000 to almost. feetTruth be told, I feel like Patti Armbrister has said a lot of the same thing but perhaps differently.I invite the dialogue and the debate, it's an intriguing debate.shift the perspectiveconversation should be framed as from the soil up it should be from the sun downphotosynthesis the engine we can harness that drives the entire systemthe only way you have of building the new energy to ecosystemhave this conversation with commercial farmers but for gardeners when you do the mathof the quantity of carbon that can be sequestered and fixed into a soilwritten history of agriculture the agronomists of 60s and 70s engaged in converstationsfastest way to build soil organic matter is to grow corn.idea that corn extracts organic matter, it's true that it does but it’s not the fault of the corn plant1/2 of a percentage point of organic matter on a commercial scale on the same soil growing corn and corn and cornwhen you do the matha corn crop can transmit as much as 15000 pounds out of the root system to feed soil biologyOn a farm that’s 7.5 tons per acreA farmer can not afford to do that in composteconomics don’t exist in or less true in a garden because you justify dozens of tons of compost per acreultimately the fastest way to build soils to focus on building plantsemphasizing very strongly and specifically on plants because I feel that it's a side of the conversation that has been missed and not been well describedsoil and plants are on the same ecosystem healthy plants create healthy soil creates further supports further generations of health soils and...