The Tenacity Podcast Epi 24 Part 2: Why We Don't Go To Church Anymore

People quote Hebrews 10 at Patrick and Maddie: do not forsake the assembling of yourselves together. Patrick's answer is that the verse is about community, and that a church where you cannot question a doctrine without being removed is not offering community. So they went and found it elsewhere. A fathers' group in Tulsa. An AA meeting, though Patrick has never been an addict. The mats at Maddie's jiu jitsu gym, where a training partner asked how she was really doing and her instructor corrected him when his advice went off the rails. She calls that better Christian community than she was getting on Sunday. Then Patrick, who spent seven years as a pastor and went to Bible college for this, lays out the part he cannot get around. He argues the church has the gospel itself wrong. That "Jesus died for your sins" is a thin description of the cross, like saying he bought Maddie a wedding ring so she would have something pretty to wear. That everlasting life in John 3:16 is not heaven, and Jesus defines it himself four chapters later. That salvation was never about accepting forgiveness, and the best salvation prayer in the Bible is Paul's five-word question. They are not deconstructing. Patrick is clear about the difference: they name what is broken, and then they put something in its place. If you have a good church, keep it. This is where the two of them landed. Chapters00:00 Previously, in Part 100:55 Welcome01:16 The three reasons, recapped01:59 The verse people quote at us03:09 You cannot question the doctrine03:20 So we found community elsewhere03:41 The fathers' group06:28 Adhere to all of it, or get out07:16 The church as a black hole09:38 You'd be a better Christian in the parking lot10:42 If your church closed, would anyone notice?11:38 Better Christian community at jiu jitsu14:35 The biggest reason, we can't buy in15:11 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees16:21 Jesus died for your sins is a weak description17:23 They made salvation all about heaven18:02 John 3:16, and what everlasting life means19:08 Salvation has nothing to do with forgiveness20:22 What a salvation prayer actually is21:25 How you actually hear God's voice22:48 Not deconstructing, reconstructing23:26 Why the Bible is not like any other book24:21 God's Word is one Greek word25:18 You can't grasp it with a 3D brain26:37 Reading the Bible topically27:51 What they never teach you28:46 Where Jesus would actually be29:14 Thanks for being with us The Tenacity Podcast is Patrick and Maddie Martinez, a podcast for couples about marriage, family and getting through a crisis together. Free 30 minute call with Patrick: call.pem.coach