Knowing When to Change: Ice Cream, Fine Dining & Reinvention | Nicholas Harary

Why This Episode MattersNicholas Harary explains why he chose to reinvent one of New Jersey’s most acclaimed fine-dining restaurants before the business forced him to.A surprisingly technical look at what separates great ice cream from mediocre ice cream: butterfat, overrun, and the cold chain.Nicholas, Mark Pascal and Francis Schott debate whether traditional fine dining is dead or simply evolving.The conversation turns to Michelin: what its stars mean today, how the Guide’s expansion model complicates perceptions of independence, and why restaurateurs should always focus on the customers in the room.BanterMark and Francis return from Sonoma with stories from Paul Hobbs’ 35th anniversary, smoke drifting across wine country and conversations with winemakers about what actually causes smoke taint. They make it onto Martinelli’s famously steep Jackass Hill where tasting zinfandel grapes directly from vines behind a wine he has loved for decades proves considerably more appealing than actually working a harvest.The ConversationNicholas Harary and his wife, Melissa, opened Restaurant Nicholas in 2000 and spent two decades building it into one of New Jersey’s defining fine-dining restaurants. But Nicholas had already begun another chapter. What started in 2018 as a small seasonal ice cream shop where their kids might work became Nicholas Creamery. On opening weekend, police were directing traffic while Nicholas realized the 300 gallons of ice cream they had made weren’t going to be enough.That leads to a deep dive into ice cream: why controlling temperature matters, why Nicholas had a freezer truck custom-built, how butterfat and overrun affect quality, and what happens when you melt different commercial ice creams side by side. Nicholas also explains the elaborate process behind flavors such as bourbon barrel-aged coffee chocolate chunk.Then the conversation moves from ice cream to reinvention. Even after Restaurant Nicholas had its best year, Nicholas could see diners changing. Rather than gradually dilute what the restaurant had been, he closed it and rebuilt the concept as the much more casual Nicholas Barrel & Roost. His philosophy is simple: if your business looks exactly the same five years from now, you may have a problem.Nicholas, Mark and Francis debate whether the version of fine dining they grew up with is gone and what has replaced it. They ask what gets lost when restaurants begin designing for the camera as much as the diner. Finally, they tackle the Michelin Guide from changing definitions of a Michelin-worthy restaurant to the financial arrangements used to bring Michelin into new markets before Nicholas offers his advice to younger chefs: concentrate on the people inside your restaurant, not the people outside talking about it.Guest BioNicholas Harary is the chef and restaurateur behind Nicholas Barrel & Roost, Nicholas Creamery and Nicholas Wines. He and his wife Melissa opened Restaurant Nicholas in 2000; during its 20-year run, the restaurant received an “extraordinary” from The New York Times Harary later transformed the space into the more casual Nicholas Barrel & Roost while expanding Nicholas Creamery across New Jersey.Timestamps00:00 Sonoma, smoke taint and Jackass Hill 08:08 Nicholas Harary joins the Guys 09:50 How Nicholas Creamery unexpectedly took off 14:40 Why the cold chain matters for great ice cream 17:00 Butterfat, overrun and what you're really paying for 21:05 Jersey flavors and bourbon barrel-aged coffee ice cream 23:30 Why Nicholas walked away from fine dining at its peak 28:25 Is fine dining dying or just changing? 34:45 What does a Michelin star mean now? 42:15 Michelin, Sysco and the appearance of impartialityInfoNicholas Barrel and Roosthttps://www.barrelandroost.com/Nicholas Creameryhttps://www.nicholascreamery.com/Nicholas Wines https://www.nicholaswines.com/ We're bringing our kitchen to the farm! Join us at Dreyer Farms in Cranford, NJ for a Table-to-Farm Dinner. Sunday, September 13 @ 5:30 https://www.stageleft.com/event/91326-table-to-farm-dinner/ Subscribe: Restaurant Guys' Regularhttps://restaurantguysregulars.buzzsprout.com/Magyar Bankhttps://www.magbank.com/Stage Left Wine Shophttps://www.stageleftwineshop.com/Our PlacesStage Left Steak https://www.stageleft.com/Catherine Lombardi Restaurant https://www.catherinelombardi.com/Stage Left Wineshop https://www.stageleftwineshop.com/Reach Out to The Guys! TheGuys@restaurantguyspodcast.com